let me start by saying that I'm no moral police or a crusader who is here to give people any moral lessons. With this post I'm just trying to bring some points related to this debate of virginity vs morality into perspective.
In last few days I have read quite a few post about this topic and people have given varied opinions on this.Though I relate to many of them to a certain extent but there are some bloggers who are slapping their views in the face of their readers without taking the perspective from both sides.
Two posts are written about the fact that Virginity is not in the hymen. I totally agree with the statement that but not with the conclusions that are drawn from this statement. Matheikal writes “Virginity does not lie in the hymen but in the brain, it’s an attitude, a commitment,” I have to say his post is really thought provoking.
When it is in the brain and it is considered as commitment then how can somebody who hasn't been committed to themselves be trusted. The shallow beings who have been lustful and couldn't control their desires has no right to demand anything from anyone. Who is demanding this respect ? I read long ago that respect is commanded not demanded. Nature of the person never changes and if a person don't respect commitments then even after marriage there is a huge chance of infidelity and here I just don't mean sexual but in mental level as well.
Let me make it clear that I'm not talking about rape survivors here. I feel they are the victims of society. They can't be blamed for someone else's crime. As I wrote in the comment of one the blogs I read on this topic that I don't have any problem in accepting a rape survivor.You can Google and find many stories where boyfriends have married their girlfriend after their girlfriend's faced rape.
My point is about those people who choose to lose their virginity by choice and here I include both men and women. I think these people make it clear that they don't value virginity (read commitment) but these are the same people who make the most hue and cry about it. They try to hide behind the justification that rape survivors also lose their virginity and hence I have clearly differentiated between the rape survivors who are forced to lose it and people who lose their virginity by choice. Again forcing a point that I'm talking about the mindset and the attitude.
There can be just two justification for losing your virginity by choice, first you were in love with a guy and second you were adventurous and wanted to enjoy life.
Let's take the first case if you were in love then what's the point in marrying someone else ? and what if your lover wants you back again ? and since you have fall in love twice,just assuming that the person who is free enough to lose virginity would definitely marry someone they love, what is probability that you may not fall in love again ?
Second point is straight forward, the person don't value virginity or commitment and they should definitely find a match who have s.
I feel the most balanced point here was given by Nandini, "I feel if you are a virgin yourself, only then accept a virgin for yourself. If you've allowed yourself to be used and had your fun (with multiple partners) then don't practice hypocrisy."
Some people replied to my comment on this post that I have said that this is balanced because this suits my point. Which point ? I couldn't get that. If you are against this point then you mean to say you want to compel people who are virgin to marry people have had their fun and don't respect commitment. They are totally different people.This point also says that if you are not virgin then you shouldn't be asking for the same in the partner. Hence, I say it is a balanced view.
If two virgins are marrying each other then this problem won't arise. This debate stems in only when a person who is not a virgin wants to marry someone who is a virgin. I think the problem is created by these people only.You have done what you wanted to do and I'm totally fine with that but now you want that everyone should accept your thinking and your mindset which is not possible. You have to respect other's point of view.
I recently read a research called “Do-Gooder Derogation,” or our tendency to put down others if we feel they are morally-motivated. When someone’s behavior is overtly moral, we often feel annoyed and resentful, rather than impressed or inspired.
As Burt summarized, Guys, appreciate that marriage is a personal thing and people have their own preferences. Imposing ‘your’ preference and morals on the other is infringement of the other person’s rights. What 2 people do, till the time they are not infringing on anyone else’s rights, should not matter to you.
In my understanding the people who are imposing their own morals on others are no different than the moral police.
India celebrates diversity and it's time we celebrate the diversity in sexual preferences but this can't be done by pushing forward your view to others. We have to learn to respect each other's belief systems, choices and preferences.
My comment is indirectly discussed here so I am obligated to reply .ReplyDelete
1. Virgin seek virgin ... nothing wrong....a girl can prove .Can he prove it too ? Prove it ur a virgin and than go hunting for another virgin ! Until than shouldn't talk about morality etc etc .......
2. Asking a girl whether she is a virgin or not ? Not acceptable under any condition .Tell u why . If its a love marriage guy would know obviously . If its an arrange marriage no one has a right to ask such outrageous & demeaning questions to a girl .
I have few very basic questions to ask . 1. What you want is your personal choice .You CAN"T intrude in someone else's personal space because of it . Usually such situation arise when a boy & a girl go for an arrange marriage .Which means they are all most strangers . I , personally , would never tolerate such intrusive & outrageous questions from a perspective groom come what may . I guess no one wants to discuss such issues . 2. In case , some guy has such preference why not put it openly across in the matrimonial itself . Tall ,handsome & virgin guy seeking ..... . Why embarrass a girl by asking such questions ? Would a guy do this ? Do u think ? I guess not . Male virginity is a matter of shame for men. I don't think a male can ever do this . Hence , if a man can't come out in open about his personal life he doesn't , I mean , DOES NOT have any right to ask a girl about the same . If he has special requirements, he should make it clear from his own end. Than who ever is interested would contact that guy or , as you said , would just skip to the next eligible bachelor . Your choices doesn't give u a right to intrude in someone else personal life .It is harmful , malicious & in every which way subject to harassment
You copy pasted your answer from somewhere without reading my post. Isn't it ? I have categorically said it applies to both men and women. I can't answer about something which I have not mentioned.Delete
Though I would tell you to read the last two paragraphs as I feel you may find some answers there.
To be a virgin or not to be.To love someone or remain single till death,as many questions there will be as many opinions as there are people on this planet. If we ask a wise sage he will give his interpretation,I will give mine,@Mr Matheikal gave his opinion,@Garima gave hers.It is a free world today,the traditions and rules of society and religion are dynamic and changing with the times, we too need to change. Being adventurous, being in love, having affairs and relationships before committing to one doesn't make a person bad! falling in love is such a beautiful thing,how can you brand someone for loving someone else before marriage?Trust is all in the head, you either trust or you will suspect your own shadow too. Remember the sweetest songs are written with a broken heart. Artists,poets, writers fall in love all the time, are they bad, shallow people? We have no right to judge anyone. Moral standards are different for different people, we should respect that.You say lust makes a person shallow, no wonder prostitution is the oldest profession of human civilization and the most thriving one in all cultures.Why do you think people go there to sing bhajans?Lust is a basic human need,celibacy is a choice. ITS THE INDIVIDUALS CHOICE! we cant force our morals and values on others. A person may be a good or a bad person virginity be be damned!Delete
Haha...are you not contradicting yourself. You are saying one should not force their point of view on others while you are doing that yourself. Read my post I have written twice that everyone has the right to do what they want but they can't force others to accept it. Be adventurous and have as many affairs as you want but don't force others to except this kind of lifestyle.Delete
I agree and disagree at the same time. First point I would like to raise, a woman loves a man mentally loses her virginity to a man she loves and physically also and here I am not talking about hymen even the first kiss is breaching virginity for me as its all in the brain, why does she marry some one else well because she was dumped by the man, insulted and just because she in her innocence believed a man because he said "I love you" doe she lose a right to be loved truly again? Falling in love more than once is all right, you cannot hold a "dead child" close to your chest your life time, the same applies to a man, and one thing that makes me feel proud of my husband is he accepted me with my lack of virginity and my bitter life and never mind, well he deserved a virgin according to many of you as he was a virgin (an intelligent woman will gauge if his man is a virgin or not) but when I asked him why is he even marrying me he answered me 'I saw two things in your eyes the pain of betrayal and the strength of honesty" Yes I personally won't opt for casual flings, one night stands but I will shy away from judging people choosing this life style because one thing I have learnt fro life do not judge a person by only one aspect.ReplyDelete
True and that's his judgement and I respect it. It's a personal thing and let everyone make their own judgement like he did. There will be right people and wrong people but at last it's an individual choice.Delete
Secondly, I'm not against people finding love but people forcing others to accept their point of view. Whatever that is. If you like to sleep with people before marriage that's fine and if you value your virginity that should be fine too.Respect everyone's choice.Delete
My point exactly Gaurab, Virginity is a personal choice right? so, why label people in the society. Individual is a part of the society but motivations like Food, Sleep, Thirst,Security, Sex is totally individualistic. The way an individual sleeps eats should not bother others so, this should not also if it is done without infringing on others freedom because to work as a society and to be individualistic at the same time we need high regard for others independenceDelete
Respect to you for taking criticism positively and going for a healthy discussionDelete
That's what is the point I'm making. We have to give high regard for others independence. If someone decides not be virgin that's a personal choice at the same time if someone chooses to be with just one person that's a personal choice as well. Respect both.Delete
I read a popular post and it says you are wrong being righteous. Isn't that judgmental too. Respecting someone views doesn't mean accepting it. I respect other religious views that doesn't mean I would accept it as well. That's what I have summed up in last paragraph as well.
when was the last time we respected individual choice? it's high time we start respecting others view point and understanding of the fact that humans are diverse so can have different view points.Delete
Wow dude...this is a perfect post on such a topic..u nailed it Bro...After Tomichan matheikal sir....yours is a must read....loved it...respect..:-)ReplyDelete
Thanks a lot bro...I really admire your guts to come infront and tell everyone about your virginity. That's a slap on the face on people who writes that men don't talk about their virginity.Delete
well i actually didnt knew to talk about virginity is such a courageous thing.....vaise my whole friend circle knows...em a virgin...ha haha ha ha..:-DDelete
thanks for the admiration....:-)
I think it's normal, even in my friend circle we discuss our sex lives but since many a bloggers have written that guys don't tell about their virginity hence to make your personal thing public deserves some admiration. :) :DDelete
Gaurab, Thanks for sharing the "Do-Gooder Derogation" Post. I can identify with it :)ReplyDelete
I have similar views in my Post.
Fact is- Girl may ask Boy if he's a virgin, but will she get an honest reply?
Wish Honesty & Trust were more common...
That depends upon the individuals. We can't make a law because there is a possibility that a person may lie.Delete
Gaurab I definitely agree with your point.. It applies to both men and women.. But two things, firstly, a girl who loses her virginity to the man she loves (like in the first case u explained) she should marry him.. but what if the entire love thing is fake to get her to bed? Guys can be pretty persuasive and girls blinded in love, not wanting to break up end up doing what they ask.. and finally, after the guy has his share of desert he leaves her.. are u saying these girls are actually at fault??? My second concern is, imagine a stranger asking a woman (before arranged marriage) if she is virgin or not.. Her answer would be "I am but are you?? and can you prove it, where as I can".. Like I have written in my post, it applies to both men and women and they should be open and clear about things before marriage and marry like minded people.. Not necessarily virgin has to marry a virgin.. If he/she is ok in marrying a non virgin then fine.. I still believe that what people have done is not important but why is the most important question.. but considering the present society I don't think apart from few youngsters anybody would agree to this concept of virginity applying to both genders.. Every day we read news about 'women rape' not 'men rape'.. More like the term "rape" belongs to women.. Because they have "maryada" and they should preserve it.. Even if people gets to know that a man is sleeping with other women nobody calls him a slut.. but for women they do!!! May be no matter how much we say, I doubt if the tag "purity" can be associated with men (I really want this to happen).. So the society ends up giving a character certificate to women (I wish we stop judging women on what they do and start analyzing why they do).. So let us not judge women if they are virgin or not but judge them based on how many boy friends she had, how many guys she has cheated, is she doing drugs, does she carry any principles or morals in life, can she be faithful to one man in life (am sure we can't judge all this just because she is not a virgin).. She might not be a virgin but she might be faithful.. she might be a virgin but end up sleeping with all other men after marriage.. Character is important and that can't be judged by virginity.. I believe it is society's definition of a good woman is "virgin" "pure" "one man's property" "Decent" etc etc since many years (Like Anita has written, goddesses were not excused we are just mortal human beings).. you know what I mean.. correct me if I am wrong.. Open for discussion :)ReplyDelete
Everyone should be responsible for the mistakes they commit. Aren't we always told to own up our mistakes. I'm not the judge here to say that anyone deserves a choice or not, it should depend upon the individual. There are high number of people who won't accept it and everyone should respect their choice as they have done nothing wrong in their life.Delete
Virginity cannot be categorized as a character certificate. And Garima is right. Only in a women can it be proven if she is a virgin or not, it can't be proven in a man. Hence it is totally wrong to ask this question. It is humiliating to ask anyone this question, whether a man or a woman. What happened in their past, how deeply thay had loved someone, why they could not marry that person - you are just reopening old wounds. Leave the past where it belongs - in the past. You will meet women who are absolute virgins but sly and total bitches. And you will meet women who are not virgins but the most beautiful human beings ever(likewise for men) - choice is yours. But to the person who is a wonderful human being irrespective of their virginity status - it won't be their loss if you reject them on that grounds.ReplyDelete
Arti just answer me a simple question, Do you want to start a relationship with a lie ? many people don't want it and respect their choice as they respect the choice of the people who want to "sleep" with multiple people.Delete
Is there any way to prove a man is a virgin? This test is for women alone, if there is no way to prove a man is a virgin, why should this question be placed at all in the first place? A man can very conveniently lie that he has not slept with anyone and there would be no way to prove him wrong. And the so-called test of virginity known as the hymen can be ruptured in a woman even when she plays sports, then it will be said she is not a virgin and her whole life is miserable after that. Get my point, Gaurab?Delete
Amazing post. I can totally identify with the "Do-Gooder Derogation". People often link morality and judgement together. The truth is immoral people judge all the time. They feel they have a right to insult someone for having morals, but the reverse is considered unacceptable and orthodox. what people should understand is if you don't like being forced morals, then you shouldn't force immorality either.ReplyDelete
As for the topic at hand, I think virginity a very personal thing. In fact, the topic shouldn’t concern anyone but the girl/guy and their respective partners. Why should we debate on intimate issues on which we have no right to advice others?
Thank you. :) You have totally summed up the discussion. Whatever be your morals, you shouldn't force it on anyone. It's a proven fact that immoral people always try to demean people whom they think morally superior.Delete
It absolutely true that virginity is a personal and it should be left that way only. We shouldn't discuss anyone else's personal life.
Morality is a vague term insofar as it is highly personal and dependent on so many factors such as culture, religious upbringing, family background... I'd rather opt for the 'level of consciousness' which is less dependent on these factors and can be easily cultivated if one wishes. And that's also why I wrote in my blog (which you've referred to) that virginity is ultimately a personal choice. A person with a greater level of consciousness will make more committed choices...ReplyDelete
Sir, consciousness is a vague term as well.Example not related with the topic - Do you think criminals don't have consciousness ? They have and there consciousness allow them to do the crime. Though in general we say that they don't have it but they do. Every criminal can justify their act.Delete
In every religion and culture just the words change but the core meaning is the same. Don't betray others. Don't harm others.Do good for others. Isn't this the gist of every religion ?
Good views, and a very good discussion, All in all, i liked the fact mentioned in the post that its better not to be a hypocrite..!!ReplyDelete
Thanks a lot. I think we should be open to views and should be flexible enough to accommodate other point of views. Thanks for the feedback. :)Delete
Even you have pointed my line too in your post !! Whatever you have written here are kind of disheartening for me ... I don't know why ... The point was why only Women ?? but you distracted and then started discussing about losing virginity on someone's own wish ... The main topic was not that.. Even I mentioned that in my blog too... and you wrote "The shallow beings who have been lustful and couldn't control their desires has no right to demand anything from anyone. Who is demanding this respect ?" - what does it mean ? Then it is applicable in the case too if a girl is getting married, having sex and then getting dumped or divorced- then doesn't she deserve any respect?, Even if some single mother is raising her child alone, then also she is not deserving any respect ?? God !! and no one has any right to point at someone's past ... Actually you can never know the story behind !! anyways good discussionReplyDelete
Have you read my post ? I have not pointed to your post at any place.Delete
For your question, why only women ? Read my post again, I have written it applies to both.
I'm sorry to tell you but your comment is really negative. You are again trying to save the people who lose their virginity for fun by comparing them with single mothers and divorcees who actually deserve respect for their efforts. My post is directed towards those who don't value virginity where virginity is virginity in brain not sexual.
Please don't read between the lines for your convenience.
Its thought-provoking post & topic. I have to contemplate my views. It was a very great discussion on this post. worth-reading everyone POV. I will write my views & share with u all.ReplyDelete
Hmm, interesting viewpoints.ReplyDelete
I think one can classify Virginity into - physical, mental, psychological.
Yet, most people will be stuck at physical level of virginity. From would be in-laws; from police who insist on 2 finger tests to prove 'penetration' occurred or not and courts who deviate cases away from justice by diverting it towards whether the woman in question is virgin or not.
It still remains a fact that men want a virgin wife but are OK with a non virgin GF. And probably the same goes for a bride's expectations.
As for hymens, well, there are hymenoplasties conducted galore to reconstruct the said anatomical membrane. So, it boils down to trust and introspection.